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Moore
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And then there were four

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QUOTE
From the Electronic Frontier Foundation's analysis of the Patriot Act :

a.   Be careful what you put in that Google search.  

The government may now spy on web surfing of innocent Americans, including terms entered into search engines, by merely telling a judge anywhere in the U.S. that the spying could lead to information that is "relevant" to an ongoing criminal investigation. The person spied on does not have to be the target of the investigation. This application must be granted and the government is not obligated to report to the court or tell the person spied upon what it has done.




>> http://www.google-watch.org/bigbro.html <<
>> http://www.google-watch.org/ <<


Google is one of about four search engines that matter.

There are many more than four engines, but only about four have the technology to crawl much of the web on a regular basis.

As of July 2003, Yahoo owned Overture, Alltheweb, AltaVista, and Inktomi, and finally dumped Google in February 2004.

Everything needed to turn Yahoo into a major search engine is under Yahoo's roof. Google still does the best crawling, but not by much. Yahoo is creeping up from behind.


It is still possible that Yahoo will shoot themselves in the foot with all of this firepower -- their desire to monetize everything appears to be high on their agenda. But so far, after only a few months, Yahoo has shown that their main index search results are on a par with Google's. This is true despite the fact that Yahoo is trying to monetize their results by infiltrating some pay-per-click into the main index. One reason for Yahoo's success is that Google's main index, though free from paid results, has declined considerably since early 2003. Amazingly, there is on average only a 20 percent overlap between Yahoo's first 100 results and Google's first 100 results for the same search -- and still, Yahoo is just as good as Google. These days there is so little room at the top of the search results heap, that any combination of algorithms will produce acceptable results. The main difference now is in the depth of the crawl.

Microsoft, which is developing its own engine, is currently squeezed between the advertising engine of Overture and the search engine Inktomi -- both of which are Yahoo property.

In 2003 Microsoft began experimenting with their own crawler. Their new engine will be launched in late 2004 or early 2005.

If Microsoft puts their greed on a back burner for a few years, by doing deep crawls and presenting a clean interface, they could do to Google what they did to Netscape.

There is no "secret sauce" at Google -- we now believe it was all hype from the very beginning. (To the extent that there ever was a secret sauce, the recipe is now known by countless ecommerce spammers, which makes it a liability rather than an asset.) Thousands of engineers in hundreds of companies know how to design search engines. The only real questions are whether you can commit the resources for a deep, consistent crawl of the web, and how aggressively you want to use your search engine to make money.

That gives us Google, Yahoo, and Microsoft.

The last one worth watching is Teoma/AskJeeves. Their search technology is good, and they seem serious about expanding their crawl. It remains to be seen how deeply and consistently they will be able to crawl websites with thousands of pages.

Google is easily top dog. They provide about 75 percent of the external referrals for most websites. There is no point in putting up a website apart from Google. It's do or die with Google. If we're all very lucky, one of the other three will soon offer some serious competition. If we're not lucky, we will be uploading our websites to Google's servers by then, much like the bloggers do at blogger.com (which was bought by Google in 2003). It would mean the end of the web as we know it.

It is worthwhile to understand the pressures that the average, independent webmaster is under. And given that Google is so dominant, it's important to understand the pressures that are being brought to bear on Google, Inc. It does not take too much imagination to recognize that there's a struggle going on for the soul of the web, and the focal point of this struggle is Google itself.

At one level, it's a struggle for advertising revenue. The pundits look at only this level, and are unanimous that the only advertising model on the web with any sort of future is one where little ads appear after being triggered by keyword searches, or by the non-ad content of a web page. For example, a search for Google Watch may show some ads on the right side of the screen for wrist watches. While the technique doesn't work for this example, often it serves its purpose. There is only so much pixeled real estate that the average user can be expected to survey for a given search.

Today up to half of each screen is dedicated to paid ads on Google, as compared to the ad-free original Google. Everyone wants a piece of this new wave in web advertising, and Google is making a lot of money.

Unfortunately, early evidence suggests that Yahoo is less interested in pure search algorithms, than in acquiring market share in a pay-for-placement and/or pay-for-inclusion revenue stream.

The same may be true for Microsoft. Even Google, dazzled by the sudden income from advertising, must be wondering why they go to all that trouble and expense to crawl the noncommercial sector. Those public-sector sites, such as the org, edu and gov domains, do not provide direct income, even though the web would be unattractive without them.

All the excitement over a revived online ad market, pushed by pundits hoping for another dot-com gold rush, is beginning to look like the days when AltaVista decided that portals were the Next Big Thing. That notion caused AltaVista to lose interest in improving their crawling and searching -- which is how Google succeeded in the first place.

There has been almost no interest in establishing search engines that specialize in public-sector websites. Where is the Library of Congress? Where are the millions of dollars doled out by the Ford Foundation? How about the United Nations? Why can't some enlightened European entity pick up the slack? Everyone is asleep, while the Internet is getting spammed to death.

At another level, it's a struggle over who will have the predominant influence over the massive amounts of user data that Google collects. In the past, discussions about privacy issues and the web have been about consumer protection. That continues to be of interest, but since 9/11 there is a new threat to privacy -- the federal government. Google has not shown any inclination to declare for the rights of its users across the globe, as opposed to the rights of the spies in Washington who would love to have access to Google's user data.

Much of the struggle at this new level is unarticulated. For one thing, the spies in Washington don't talk about it. Congress has given them new powers, without debating the issues. Google, Inc. itself never comments about things that matter, and as a private corporation is largely unaccountable. The struggle recognized by Google Watch has to do with the clash of real forces, but right now all we can say is that potentially this struggle could manifest itself in Google's boardroom.

The privacy struggle, which includes both the old issue of consumer protection and this new issue of government surveillance, means that the question of how Google treats the data it collects from users becomes critical. Given that Google is so central to the web, whatever attitude it takes toward privacy has massive implications for the rest of the web in general, and for other search engines in particular.

Call it class warfare, if you like.

Because that brings up the other major gripe that Google Watch has with Google. That's the PageRank problem -- the fact that Google's primary ranking algorithm has less to do with the quality of web pages, than it has to do with the "power popularity" of web pages. Their approach to ranking is anti-democratic, in that already-powerful pages are mathematically granted extra power to anoint other pages as powerful.

It's not that we believe Google is evil. What we believe is that Google, Inc. is at a fork in the road, and they have some big decisions to make. This Google Watch site is trying to articulate and publicize the situation at Google, and encourage more scrutiny of their operations. By doing this, we hope to play a small part in maintaining the web as an information tool that is more useful for the masses, than it is for the elites.

That's why we and over 500 others nominated Google for a Big Brother award in 2003.

The nine points we raised in connection with this nomination necessarily focused on privacy issues:

1. Google's immortal cookie:
Google was the first search engine to use a cookie that expires in 2038. This was at a time when federal websites were prohibited from using persistent cookies altogether. Now it's years later, and immortal cookies are commonplace among search engines; Google set the standard because no one bothered to challenge them. This cookie places a unique ID number on your hard disk. Anytime you land on a Google page, you get a Google cookie if you don't already have one. If you have one, they read and record your unique ID number.

2. Google records everything they can:
For all searches they record the cookie ID, your Internet IP address, the time and date, your search terms, and your browser configuration. Increasingly, Google is customizing results based on your IP number. This is referred to in the industry as "IP delivery based on geolocation."

3. Google retains all data indefinitely:
Google has no data retention policies. There is evidence that they are able to easily access all the user information they collect and save.

4. Google won't say why they need this data:
Inquiries to Google about their privacy policies are ignored. When the New York Times (2002-11-28) asked Sergey Brin about whether Google ever gets subpoenaed for this information, he had no comment.

5. Google hires spooks:
Matt Cutts, a key Google engineer, used to work for the National Security Agency. Google wants to hire more people with security clearances, so that they can peddle their corporate assets to the spooks in Washington.

6. Google's toolbar is spyware:
With the advanced features enabled, Google's free toolbar for Explorer phones home with every page you surf, and yes, it reads your cookie too. Their privacy policy confesses this, but that's only because Alexa lost a class-action lawsuit when their toolbar did the same thing, and their privacy policy failed to explain this. Worse yet, Google's toolbar updates to new versions quietly, and without asking. This means that if you have the toolbar installed, Google essentially has complete access to your hard disk every time you connect to Google (which is many times a day). Most software vendors, and even Microsoft, ask if you'd like an updated version. But not Google. Any software that updates automatically presents a massive security risk.
>> http://www.google-watch.org/cgi-bin/nb18/0006 <<


7. Google's cache copy is illegal:
Judging from Ninth Circuit precedent on the application of U.S. copyright laws to the Internet, Google's cache copy appears to be illegal. The only way a webmaster can avoid having his site cached on Google is to put a "noarchive" meta in the header of every page on his site. Surfers like the cache, but webmasters don't. Many webmasters have deleted questionable material from their sites, only to discover later that the problem pages live merrily on in Google's cache. The cache copy should be "opt-in" for webmasters, not "opt-out."


8. Google is not your friend:
By now Google enjoys a 75 percent monopoly for all external referrals to most websites. Webmasters cannot avoid seeking Google's approval these days, assuming they want to increase traffic to their site. If they try to take advantage of some of the known weaknesses in Google's semi-secret algorithms, they may find themselves penalized by Google, and their traffic disappears. There are no detailed, published standards issued by Google, and there is no appeal process for penalized sites. Google is completely unaccountable. Most of the time Google doesn't even answer email from webmasters.


9. Google is a privacy time bomb:
With 200 million searches per day, most from outside the U.S., Google amounts to a privacy disaster waiting to happen. Those newly-commissioned data-mining bureaucrats in Washington can only dream about the sort of slick efficiency that Google has already achieved.



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pruttel
Hmmz, gives you something to think about.... ph34r.gif

question, in mozilla firefox there is a googletoolbar, is that the same as the one for IE?

unsure.gif
Xero Grid
Very interesting.

Well, I delete all my cookies multiple times a day, and never use any toolbars.
I thought the Google Toolbar seemed kind of fishey, and I was starting to doubt my own doubts until I heard it phones home.

Well, this reminds me of a company that my company works with and helping them get off their feet.
They are search engine programmers that may very well be Google's next competition. wink.gif

-- Xero Grid --
crespo1
Good post MOORE. I just removed Google Toolbar. Question: Whats a good pop-up blocker (now that I removed Google Toolbar I have nothing).
Xero Grid
I hate pop-up blockers. That's one reason why I made SXG (my sig).

But if you really must have one, get a browser or an IE attachment that has one built in.
MyIE2 has a pop-up blocker and is the best browser I've ever used. If you like IE, you will love MyIE2. wink.gif
Anything related to Mozilla is good and always has a pop-up blocker. FireFox is an excellent browser. wink.gif

-- Xero Grid --
crespo1
I don't really like switching browsers (too used to IE). I tried Mozilla before hated it. If I use the "adware spyware ad and tracking etc" list is that good? And about ur SXG, whats that about?
Xero Grid
MyIE2 is not a whole browser. It uses IE as it's core and looks like it with more features without slowing ti down. Trust me. Just try it. It uninstalls just as easily as it installs. laugh.gif

About SXG, it's an installer that changes system files and settings to prevent pop-ups, ads, spyware, ect. You install it one time and that's it. It deals with the HOSTS file, the restricted sites zone in IE, blacklisting spyware by setting the Killbit for it's ActiveX controls, you can change the search engine used by IE to Google, and more. It's free and all explained in the links in my sig.

-- Xero Grid --
crespo1
Ok I might try that later on. Gonna wait till I have more time on my hands.

edit: Just tried out MyIE2 and its pretty awesome. I didn't have to configure my favourites or anything (since it uses the default IE folder) so I was very happy about that.
Xero Grid
Yeah, I really like MyIE2. The only thing I have against it is that the default look is a bit cluttered. Here is what mine looks like (cleaned up with a skin and more plug-ins). wink.gif

-- Xero Grid --
crespo1
What extra plug-in's do you got? I also cleaned mine up. I made it look exactly like my IE except for the Tab section. ... Just to stay on topic I would like to say that MyIE2 is a good alternative to the Google Toolbar (for the pop-up blocker).
Xero Grid
Some extra ones I use are:
Dictionary.com
Edit Page
IMG Extractor
TinyURL

The best place to get MyIE2 plug-ins is this page. wink.gif
Hey, I told you it would be worth it. laugh.gif

-- Xero Grid --
crespo1
Very much worth it smile.gif. Thanks a lot mate.
Xero Grid
Any time. cool.gif
Oh, I forgot. In case you got the lite version and didn't get some of the default plug-ins, search for these:
ViewSource!
Flash Save
Enable Right Click
GoUp

These plug-ins are practically essential. smile.gif
Definately some of the best. Sometimes entire programs are written to do the jobs those plug-ins do. wink.gif

-- Xero Grid --
Moore
sorry crespo , maybe i should have made this bit bigger :

QUOTE
With the advanced features enabled ,  Google's free toolbar for Explorer phones home with every page you surf


Iceblue has pointed out that you can deny the advanced features from being used when you install it , so as a popup blocker it still might be ok , http://www.spywarewarrior.com/viewtopic.php?t=2874

Like XG , I prefer to use a browser with built in blocking , I've been using *Crazybrowser for a while now , which looks very similar to MYIE2 and has its own blocklist you can play around with.. but you can have as many browsers as you want , so ill give that one a thrashing too.. biggrin.gif

But still google and yahoo toolbars seem suspicious to me , and who knows what they will add to them silently once they've built up a large userbase.. ph34r.gif

[ * edit:2007 - Now using Greenbrowser wink.gif ]
Xero Grid
Yeah, and I was fiing a computer and installed shockwave player and almost clicked yes to install the yahoo toolbar. Since when are the packaged together?!?! blink.gif

-- Xero Grid --
crespo1
Ya I always Deny the Advanced Features but you never know. XeroGrid I got the biggest version one lol.
Slayers_none
QUOTE
I hate pop-up blockers. That's one reason why I made SXG (my sig).

But if you really must have one, get a browser or an IE attachment that has one built in.
MyIE2 has a pop-up blocker and is the best browser I've ever used. If you like IE, you will love MyIE2. 
Anything related to Mozilla is good and always has a pop-up blocker. FireFox is an excellent browser. 

-- Xero Grid --


Explain SXG to me Xero if you would . S_n. asked.


Thanks The Slayers Said it. Blm. Pw. Sygate, & Outpost Rules.
Xero Grid
Oh, it's a one time installer that edits system files and settings in Windows to prevent ads, pop-ups, malware, ect.
When I said I didn't like pop-up blockers I meant I don't like extra programs running in the backround, mostly because my system is not that great and it matters.

Some of what it can do is edit the HOSTS file (neat, in alphabetical order and without duplication), add known malicious sites to the restricted sites zone, set the killbit or known spyware ActiveX controls to prevent them from downloading and running in IE. You can also shut down a few vulnerable services, like DCOM, Messenger service, there's an option to uninstall Windows messenger completely. You can set the default search engine in IE to Google, so you can just type what you want to search for into the address bar without going to Google. It has other features, but you can just look at it yourself, if you want. I was trying to focus on the major things that malware affects.

If you're interested, check it out. It's free of course. wink.gif
I hope to get ready and release a new version. I have some nice features in mind. smile.gif

BTW, SXG stands for Supertrick XG and is what got me VIP status here. laugh.gif

-- Xero Grid --
frederik
cool.gif The Immortal Google cookie, and how to get rid of it!

Well my advice too all Google users is to read this, and follow the instructions in the end of the article and get rid of this unpleasent "Gookie" for good! cool.gif


from this site I read today:

http://www.google-watch.org/cgi-bin/cookie.htm



Purpose revealed behind the 2038 expiration date for Google's cookie!

On 2004-02-26 Larry Page told Reuters:
"On the more exciting front, you can imagine your brain being augmented by Google. For example you think about something and your cell phone could whisper the answer into your ear."
At the Search Engine Strategies conference on 2004-03-03, Craig Silverstein said that in the future people will have "search pets":
Silverstein sees search pets as being able to find to the correct answer to these tricky interpretive questions. Will searching as we know it be completely replaced by search pets? "We'll still search for facts," he says, "but in all likelihood the facts will be contained in a brain implant."
... but ... Will these Google brain implants be opt-in, opt-out, or pay-per-thought?
After we get our Google implants, and we happen to think of the word "Jew" for some reason, will we automatically start google-stepping?




We used to try and trick your browser into giving us your Google cookie, assuming that you have one. One-third of those using Internet Explorer were vulnerable to our JavaScript exploit. But that got boring after a year, so now we merely send our server to Google's home page and pick up a new cookie to show you:

Gookie

Yikes! Too many preservatives: Expires on January 17, 2038
PREF=ID=3794ab5b7cc9850d
TM=1088492959
LM=1088492959
S=Q0b-pp2gzpHlVZRN

The ID number is your very own. Either write it on your forehead, or delete your Google cookie so that they have to give you a new one.
You may have some preferences set between this ID and the TM.

TM=1088492959 means 2004-06-29 07:09:19 GMT -- the time when you first got this cookie.

LM=1088492959 means 2004-06-29 07:09:19 GMT -- the last time you set some preferences.

We believe the S= is a checksum to insure data integrity.

The CIA had to stop using a comparatively innocent log-analysis cookie that expired in 10 years, and their document search site isn't even used by many people. Google handles 200 million searches per day, and their cookie expires in 2038. One of Google's leading software engineers, Matt Cutts, has a top-secret clearance and used to work for the National Security Agency. Google doesn't even feel the need to defend their cookie policy; they merely laugh off anyone who inquires about it.
A cult of geeky blogging Google pundits joins in, and ridicules the notion that you'll be using the same computer in 2038. That's not the point. Google's expiration date is a barometer of its insensitivity to privacy issues. When we noticed this in year 2000 (it was the first time we had ever seen such a long-lived cookie), the idea of Google Watch was born. Google's response to other privacy issues since then tells us that we were right.

The purpose of the unique ID is to record your search terms for present or future profiling. Google says that the cookie is needed to set preferences. At the CIA, Google's cookie story would be termed a cover story, because the unique ID is completely superfluous for this function, even when the rest of the cookie is used to do this. In fact, you can set preferences without any sort of cookie at all.




Have you seen this on Google's site?

Your cookies seem to be disabled, setting perferences will not work until you enable cookies in your browser!





For years Google has been telling us that
the cookie is necessary if you want to set
user preferences. How can we argue with
Google? We don't have 100 computer
science PhDs on our payroll !


But we did have an old laptop that we loaned to the local zoo.
After only one year, they got back to us with a solution.


On behalf of our local zoo,
we are pleased to present...


How to set Google preferences -
and still disable Google's cookie!

We don't know how long this will work, or if it works in your area, but it's worth a try because it's so easy. Perform these nine steps in this order:

1. Enable cookies.

2. Go to http://www.google.com/

3. Click on "Preferences" on the right side of the search box.

4. Set your preferences and click "Save Preferences." You're back to the search box.

5. Click on "Advanced Search" on the right side of the search box.

6. Do not fill out anything, but just click on "Google Search."

7. Bookmark this new search page.

8. Delete your Google cookie.

9. Disable all cookies, or at least your cookies for Google.
Now when you use your new bookmark for Google searches, your preferences are passed to Google in the URL, without a cookie. And with cookies disabled, Google won't be able to associate your search terms with the unique ID number that they use in their cookie. This is so wonderful that we think Google will patch this workaround sooner rather than later. If they do, it will prove for once and for all that the real reason Google uses cookies is to track you, and not to set preferences. But you knew that already, didn't you?

regards frederik ph34r.gif
Meehowski
Cool..........
Theiving
Ok, all this talk about cookies and Google keeping track of me has me wondering. I have opened my cookies folder and deleted all my cookies, but there is the dreaded index.dat file that I believe is one large cookie of all your cookies. It is not deletable or editable, so how do I get rid of it? smile.gif
Moore
I like to use MRU blaster which has a internet temp files cleaner plugin that can also be set to clear index.dat files every reboot , with as many file wipe passes as you want , I have it set to 9 biggrin.gif

There are some other free and shareware programs as well , but MRU BLASTER is one of my favourites.

http://www.javacoolsoftware.com/mrublaster.html

or system security suite = http://www.snapfiles.com/get/3s.html

or this aussie program is ok , called Clean Disk Security that lets you clean index.dat files without rebooting, says its shareware but most features work without paying for it .
http://www.theabsolute.net/sware/clndisk.html

Also not all cookies are bad , you might need to keep some if you want to be able to log into forums automatically and keep some website settings.

you can always use cookiewall to kill the ones you dont want and keep the ones you do : http://www.analogx.com/contents/download/network/cookie.htm

Mru Blaster Plugin pic:
pruttel
Kool proggie Moore biggrin.gif

installed it immediately... smile.gif
Xero Grid
Crap Cleaner. Sweet free tool. You can set it to do a silent clean upon every bootup.
If you want the best, Window Washer is shareware. wink.gif
WW has the option to "bleach" what it washes. Crap Cleaner doesn't, but it has it's own great qualities. cool.gif

-- Xero Grid --
Blackman_75
QUOTE (frederik @ Jun 29 2004, 07:23 AM)
How to set Google preferences -
and still disable Google's cookie!

We don't know how long this will work, or if it works in your area, but it's worth a try because it's so easy. Perform these nine steps in this order:

1. Enable cookies.

2. Go to http://www.google.com/

3. Click on "Preferences" on the right side of the search box.

4. Set your preferences and click "Save Preferences." You're back to the search box.

5. Click on "Advanced Search" on the right side of the search box.

6. Do not fill out anything, but just click on "Google Search."

7. Bookmark this new search page.

8. Delete your Google cookie.

9. Disable all cookies, or at least your cookies for Google.
Now when you use your new bookmark for Google searches, your preferences are passed to Google in the URL, without a cookie. And with cookies disabled, Google won't be able to associate your search terms with the unique ID number that they use in their cookie. This is so wonderful that we think Google will patch this workaround sooner rather than later. If they do, it will prove for once and for all that the real reason Google uses cookies is to track you, and not to set preferences. But you knew that already, didn't you?

regards frederik ph34r.gif

Ok I followed these steps and then disabled cookies but you then have to approve or disapprove all cookies. Well actually I choose for windows to ask permission first which is where you have to give approval. Then I blocked all cookies and couldn't get to some pages like Yahoo without them and I don't wanna have to go in and turn them on and off all the time. It was mentioned I could just turn off googles cookies, how? Also you mentioned turning cookies off where I was blocking them in IE did you mean something other than what I was doing?
Angelus
hey ppl

great post :-)

but now what search engine is one supposed to use?


Angelus
Angelus
hi all

i use http://www.mamma.com/ now as my search engine, mamma is a metasearch engine , i think its ok to use altho iam not sure.

Angelus
Sabrehawk
I rely on Opera. And since its a sweden based company they are most likely
not infiltrated by US government backdoors and also are subdue to strong
EU laws concerning storage and usage of user specific information, plus
their browser has pop up blocker included and extended cookie management.

Anyone opposing ?? Let me hear the story if so.

Nevertheless im quite shocked concerning the info i read about google.

But otherwise if thousands and thousands of people use signatures with
specific keywords that are relevant to the big brother echelons and NSA
supercomps plus doing tons of searches concerning content that might
trigger big brother filters the mere mass of data collected would be
hard to handle and to review...this is hopefully still the culprit btw
the real blokes use picture messages and otherwise strongly encrypted
methods so i hardly doubt that the typical shady power surfer will in any
way be of interest for any agency simply because there are millions of them.

But really is there a alternative to google searches that can really match ?
Yahoo sucks big monkey ass in my opinion , altavista has long surpassed
its heights and is owned by yahoo anyway, and the other ones...i hardly
ever used them since google i must admit.
Zack
OMG

There is so much Text for such a little thing. This is breathless reading alle the stuff how google does it is not interresting (well for me it isnt).

Keep it short.

Whats up?
Whats the consequences?
How do solve the problem

If someone wants more Info link to the site where you got the Info.

After i deleted the cookie and made a new one google.com doesnt work. Only google.de. How do i get back to google.com?
EvilPanda
I always hated google.

FIGHT THE POWER! mad.gif
TmBerg
QUOTE (Sabrehawk @ Oct 19 2004, 10:47 PM)
I rely on Opera. And since its a sweden based company they are most likely
not infiltrated by US government backdoors and also are subdue to strong
EU laws concerning storage and usage of user specific information, plus
their browser has pop up blocker included and extended cookie management.

Anyone opposing ?? Let me hear the story if so.

Nevertheless im quite shocked concerning the info i read about google.

But otherwise if thousands and thousands of people use signatures with
specific keywords that are relevant to the big brother echelons and NSA
supercomps plus doing tons of searches concerning content that might
trigger big brother filters the mere mass of data collected would be
hard to handle and to review...this is hopefully still the culprit btw
the real blokes use picture messages and otherwise strongly encrypted
methods so i hardly doubt that the typical shady power surfer will in any
way be of interest for any agency simply because there are millions of them.

But really is there a alternative to google searches that can really match ?
Yahoo sucks big monkey ass in my opinion , altavista has long surpassed
its heights and is owned by yahoo anyway, and the other ones...i hardly
ever used them since google i must admit.

Opera is Norway.

/Thomas

Opera is Norway.

/Thomas
r00ted
very ineresting article :X I probably won't STOP using google.....but Ill be careful of what I type in for sure tongue.gif one thing i noticed, while using Outpost Pro's HTTP Log plugin, every website I go to (that I type into the address bar), a google hostname pops up, with some long 4353475878&%%^^&4374589ysgfhsgjk jumbled URL :X I cant remember it exactly......but I e-mailed google about it and have yet to receive a response :X I believe it is most likely linked to that toolbar though :X They added some "quick search" crap to the toolbar, so that you can type in bluetack into the address bar, and it will bring you to the Google results page, automatically, without inputting the search into the google toolbar.
Satans_Spawn
God - you lot are slow on catching on with the likes of SXG and MRU-Blaster, etc!! tongue.gif
I've been using them since 1 and 2 & a half years ago, respectively! I also use Firefox, Sygate Pro, SpyBot S&D & System Settings Protector, SpywareBlaster (Javacoolsoftware), a custom Hosts file, and, FreshUI (which can be found on freshdevices.com).

BTW Xerogrid, one of your default settings in SXG seems to bugger up my internet connection (Wired LAN behind a Linksys firewall router + cable modem), so I haven't bothered with it again this install (yet). It's the bit about the DNS which NEEDS TO BE LEFT ALONE dry.gif

With regards to these index.dat files, I just open them in Notepad and empty them apart from the first few words on the 1st line. Does this help, or should I actually use a special prg to attack and shread them?

Also, I did used to have an app that would over-write my swapfile (Min and Max set to 500MB for increased stability, since winblows is so incompetent and always faffing around changing it). Which free apps can do this - shread the contents and over-write it several times?

>>The Beast<<
redzulu2003
I'm actually gunna get beasted for this but I AGREE with the cookie that google have. If you aint got anything to hide, and I aint saying anyone has....we love Computer security so this has cropped up, but if you aint breaking the law and searching for illegal things than you dont need to worry to much. I think its GREAT if used right, to perhaps catch pedo's, terroists etc etc but again the bad sides are perhaps it is too intrusive. We SHOULD BE TOLD before we use Google really, is it in there terms and conditions? small print job even? if so than fine, not many bother to read but if it isnt than bad google. I will still use Google, I like it...great search engine. I dont really have anything to worry about. Its a GREAT SUBJECT however that Google being a big name doing such things like this. I work with the law, so I like this method alot....I HOPE and PRAY TO GOD that the law do get access to the logs made by all of us, and can search keywords.....especially Pedos and terror. It could be very beneficial in fighting some of that online. Please dont beast me and go ape with me, its my opinion.
Smoka
Ahhhh ... the "flash" free days.

Anyone else remember fast.no?

ftp://ftpsearch.ntnu.no/ really kicked arse, and they posted pics of their fat dell servers too smile.gif

It was loads better than yahoo, altavista and excite. Google didn't even exist!!

Then, Google, grrrrr. At first they still gave better results than google, plus you didn't get a cookie for 33 odd years - I mean wtf? Friggin terrorists (although I dunno who I feel more terrorised by, power hungry, monopolistic, greedy, commercial, sue em, bastards or suicide bombers? Which is more likely?). I always wonder what would have happened if they had gotten better funding, stuck to their principles, and not been bought by yahoo.
coq
Can we prevent telephone intrusions? Maybe, with special gear. But who cares, not me.

Can we prevent internet intrusions? Individual or small company intrusions are stopped with tools provided at Bluetack. Bluetack stops the junk intrusions providing satisfactory results.
Even this may seem an illusion in the face of constant attacks being proliferated on the net. A day hardly goes by without a virus being detected on spam mails I receive, not to mention the number of blocked packets being stopped from exiting my computer. It's like living in the middle of a mosquito infested swamp -swatting all day but dreading the day a crocodile comes around for lunch. laugh.gif
Even the fact of having these protective programs, surely rings some automatic alarms in big brother's arsenal of detectors. But who cares, not me.
Kimberly
Google Toolbar Inserts Links in Others' Sites

http://ptech.wsj.com/archive/ptech-20050310.html

QUOTE
March 10, 2005 
Google Toolbar Inserts Links in Others' Sites, And That's a Bad Idea
By WALTER S. MOSSBERG


What if you had worked hard to design a Web page, carefully placing links just where you wanted them and carefully selecting the Web destinations to which those links led? And then, what if a company with great power on the Web started adding its own links to your page, drawing visitors away from your page to other sites of its own choosing?

You might be more than a little upset. You might wonder what gives any third party the right to edit or alter your Web page without your knowledge or permission.

Yet that's exactly what Google, the powerful search-engine company, is doing. A new feature of the company's popular Google Toolbar for the Internet Explorer browser actually adds links right into the body of any Web page. The links lead to Google's own map site or to other sites Google selects.

Google notes that this feature, called "AutoLink," makes it easier for users to look up certain information. It also is strongly reminiscent of a Microsoft gambit of a few years back in which the software giant planned to program Internet Explorer to automatically add its own links to others' Web sites. Microsoft was forced to drop its "Smart Tags" feature after Web site owners and others complained.

The Google feature is more benign than Microsoft's for several reasons. Still, the way it is being implemented is a bad idea. If it takes hold, it would start the Web down a slippery slope where no owner of a Web site could ever be sure that readers had a chance to view its pages in the way they were composed.

The autolink feature is part of a beta, or test, version of the third edition of Google's popular toolbar, which installs itself as a part of Internet Explorer and is used by millions of people.

When you open a Web page, the new Google Toolbar scans it to see if it contains certain information, such as street addresses, the ISBN numbers that identify books, or the VIN numbers that identify cars. If such information is found, the AutoLink button in the toolbar changes to read "Look for Map," or "Show Book Info," or "Show Auto Info."

If you click on the button, Google turns the addresses, or book and car ID numbers, into links that lead to sites programmed into the toolbar. In the case of addresses, the links lead by default to Google's own new map feature. In the case of book numbers, the links lead to Amazon.com. For car numbers, the links lead to Carfax, a company that sells reports detailing a car's history.

In addition to the in-page links, Google creates an alternate method for getting the added information: A list of the addresses and ID numbers can drop down from the toolbar. Clicking on the items in the list takes you to the map, book and auto sites.

Unlike Microsoft, Google isn't the near-monopoly provider of Web browsers, so its adoption of the link feature isn't as serious a threat as the Microsoft plan was. People have to choose to install the Google toolbar, and they have to click the button each and every time they want to see the links. And, at least in the case of maps, users can choose among several destination sites, including Google competitors Yahoo and MapQuest.

Still, the feature has disturbing consequences for Web site owners. In my tests, for instance, it added links to the addresses of movie theaters I had called up in a Yahoo page, and the links took me to Google Maps, not to Yahoo's own map page. When I looked up a book on eCampus, a book-selling site, AutoLink turned the ISBN numbers on the page into links to Amazon, which competes with eCampus to sell the books. When I looked up a used car for sale on AutoTrader, AutoLink turned the VIN numbers into links to Carfax, not to a competing auto-history-report seller, AutoCheck, used by AutoTrader.

If the principle behind AutoLink were to take hold, there would be nothing to stop Microsoft from adding a feature to Internet Explorer that would replace the ads on a Google search-results page with ads sold by Microsoft's MSN service.

I've had long conversations about this with senior Google officials, and they say they are actively considering changing the way the AutoLink feature works so it might not actually alter the Web pages themselves. They note that the feature is a work in progress. But the Google officials also insist their first principle is user convenience.

A compromise is easy to imagine. Instead of adding links to a page, Google could limit the feature to the drop-down list of information it already creates. Or Google could require the user to highlight the address or ID number in order to get the added information. Or it could allow the user to click on an address or ID number while holding down a key. Or it could invite Web site owners to voluntarily enable their pages to accept AutoLink links.

I take a back seat to nobody in favoring user convenience, but, as with most things in life, every principle must be balanced against others. In this case, that balancing principle is the right of Web publishers to control the content and appearance of their own sites. Users wouldn't benefit if the Web became a sea of uncertainty, where anybody could alter every Web page.

Write to Walter S. Mossberg at mossberg(at)wsj(dot)com
ericwest
who are the 4 that are left? o.O
ericwest
nevermind, im an idiot
Samurai V
I don't trust ANY add-on toolbar for IE. I use Firefox, and set it to delete cookies at the end of each browser session, so I'm not worried about conventional Google searches.

If my moderator duties elsewhere require me to investigate anything "creepy," I use a randomly chosen anonymous search service so as not to draw unwanted attention. My biggest objection to Google is the amount of off-topic pr0n links that appear in innocent searches, although I have noticed less of that junk compared with a year ago.
Moore
Google is tracking your clicks!
http://searchlores.org/ritz_google_anti_snoop.htm

QUOTE
Then this is what happens:
you see the link http://somewhere.com, you hover over it, see in your statusbar
"http://somewhere.com", so you think you will go to http://somewhere.com and you click on it, BUT THEN! the event fires and quickly ReWriTes this url to:
/url?sa=t&ct=res&cd=5&url=http://somewhere.com&ei=3427ABCDbla
("ei" is probably some kind of tracking identification code uniquely connected
to your cookie or search-query)
so your browser fires a GET request to www.google.com for this url, google
kindly saves all the (extra! and unnecessary) information your browser is
spewing, and the google.com server gives you back a 302 FOUND header:


HTTP/1.1 302 Found
Cache-Control: private
Location: http://somewhere.com
Content-Type: text/html
Server: GWS/2.1
Content-Length: 155
Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2005 16:19:24 GMT


which redirects you to the actual site you thought you were clicking
on in the first place. Of course you will never notice this little "detour"
your browser is taking, because google's servers are so darn fast, and the
information amount sent is tiny.

Now this is -in itself- nothing new, alltheweb has been doing it for ages, but
at least it doesn't try to do it secretly!

you clearly see that the link you click on doesn't go immediately to your webpage, but to some kind of ads.yahoo server instead, where you get redirected in a similar way that google does.

I think this is sneaky and not very nice from mr google. also I wonder since
*when* have they been doing this?
fe_de_7
Day by day Google is becoming a real danger for our privacy...
coq
Google is doing more than using toolbars to get your info:
QUOTE
(snip from Moors' post)
which redirects you to the actual site you thought you were clicking
on in the first place. Of course you will never notice this little "detour"
your browser is taking, because google's servers are so darn fast, and the
information amount sent is tiny.


Redirections do slowdown transfers and I am seeing this happen more frequently as time passes - meaning google-analytics.com is obviously not the only redirection on the web. Is this redirection "fair"?, a "yes" for the website I guess, but not for me.

A commercial site I have visited from its beginning now has a Google redirection to
www.google-analytics.com as you enter the commercial site. Sending an E-mail to the Webmaster indicating my disappointment with his site, he told me how to block Google's link by adding the link into Firefox using Adblock (a Firefox extension). That's fine, but it doesn't answer "why" a website is allowing Google to "analyse" their customers (or is this company too lazy to do their own analysis of what their customers wish to buy?). Bye, bye site.
Moore
Instead of using any of those search toolbars , I use the built in search toolbar in Greenbrowser and Myie2 , they work a lot better anyway and do not track your activities. Greenbrowser also has a superior popup and adblocking filter list so you wont need any of those silly popup blocker toolbars. Maxthon and Go surf browser are also very good. I cant stand firefox , sorry..


I'm getting really sick of seeing google-analytics , pagead2.googlesyndication , googleadservices etc in almost every page on the internet.. I block all their javascript crap with ad-muncher at the moment.

To me this is even worse than doubleclick or papypal tracking , as google is capable of storing your whole browsing session and identifiable information and then could pass it onto anyone whether they are forced to or eagerly just hand it over at any time..

Some more info on cleaning their cookie..
http://www.imilly.com/google-cookie.htm

On top of that they are now actively part of the communist regime to keep chinese people under oppressive rule..
http://googleblog.blogspot.com/2006/01/google-in-china.html]

Still just be glad that search engines here are not yet fully "publicly" involved in persecuting innocent people as they are doing over in communist china:
http://orangayam.blogspot.com/2006/02/info...o-china-to.html

QUOTE
Information given by Yahoo China to the Government of China has led to the jailing of one Mr Li Zhi, a 35 year old ex-civil servant who critized local officials in the province of Dazhou of corruption. He posted on an online discussion group and was jailed for 8 years as a result.


yes 8 years jail , just for trying to be honest about the corruption levels in his town.. skull.gif

QUOTE
There was a similar case last September when Yahoo gave information that led to the jailing of Chinese journalist Shi Tao for 10 years.

Shi Tao, a Chinese journalist, is serving a ten-year prison sentence in China.

Yahoo made his conviction possible, by providing the Chinese Government with his account information.

Shi Tao revealed a government document that directed Chinese journalists not to stir up social unrest during the anniversary of the June 4 Movement (in memory of the chinese govts Tiananmen Square massacre crackdown).

Ten years in jail. Ten years in jail. For one email. The Red Tie Brigade asserts, they were just following orders. Ten years in jail.


http://gaaagle.com/blog/

http://hackforfreedom.blogspot.com/

QUOTE
As a US company, they don't have much choice but to bend over for the DMCA, I suppose. But what happens when the US Government pressures them to do something even more unpalatable. Publicised examples of Google caving under pressure outnumber then standing up to it (except when their commercial interests are at stake) ...

"Be careful what you put in that Google search. The government may now spy on web surfing of innocent Americans, including terms entered into search engines, by merely telling a judge anywhere in the U.S. that the spying could lead to information that is "relevant" to an ongoing criminal investigation. The person spied on does not have to be the target of the investigation. This application must be granted and the government is not obligated to report to the court or tell the person spied upon what it has done."


http://www.eff.org/Privacy/Surveillance/Te...t_analysis.html

Be very very careful what information you allow about yourself to be taken , once you put it out there , it's impossible to get it back. Do not trust any of them , they arent your friend.
fe_de_7
Epic 2015 - Prediction of Google Control Over Our Lives --> see the movie

Google Drive: What we know so far

skull.gif
Moore
Another one to block if you want to biggrin.gif
From their urchin.js file -https://ssl.google-analytics.com/urchin.js

http://labnol.blogspot.com/2005/11/prevent...m-tracking.html

http://labnol.blogspot.com/2005/11/google-...nteresting.html
deathdrone
What about www.ask.com ? Seem's to work fine for me.
Aaron.Walkhouse
I have never used google and never needed it. ph34r.gif
http://www.copernic.com/en/products/agent/download.html
madizms
This is crazy, since I upgraded Firefox I have constant Hits from Google on peerguardian and my first page I visit is Scroogle.org wtf .. I think this is pushing it a bit, so every page I go to visit now through firefox its basically refering it to google, google is recording it.. omg .. seriously this is not on
Im not going nuts! Has any one else noticed this yet ????
fe_de_7
In these days I'm using Ixquick.
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